The Xacuti Bozo Singh Harder Talk Interview !

 XBS & TGF on the events of December 1961 - 2

continued from Part 1


XBS meanwhile had just returned from his visit to the "Sulabh" facilities. All that beer was having a profound diuretic effect on XBS.

XBS: OK.....where were we now? Yes ...the 1961 Goa action.  So TGF, are you suggesting that Goans rise up against India?
TGF: No.
XBS: Are you suggesting that Goa should be an independent country?
TGF:  Too late for that.
XBS: So, what are you saying than?
TGF:  All I am saying is that India's 1961 invasion of Goa was NOT a liberation, and that this aggression changed the international image of India forever.

XBS: What do you mean? Goa was going to be a base for the US, and India would just sit there and take it?
TGF: Says who?
XBS: Says who What?
TGF:  Who said that Goa was going to be the base for the US?
XBS: Haven't you heard it?
TGF: Heard it where?
XBS: Ask anybody. Everybody knows that Goa was to become an US base.
TGF: I dont have to ask anybody else, I am asking you. Do you know that for a fact, or are you just conveniently propagating a lie?
XBS: It was in some newspaper or magazine or something.
TGF: So you believe everything that is printed without trying to put the pieces together? You mean to say that you believe everything that is printed in the newspapers, and broadcast over the radio? Haven't you heard about convenient sound bytes & propaganda?

XBS: Anyway, what is this thing about "India's international image being damaged by the Goa 1961 action"?
TGF:  An image of being a peace-loving country.
XBS: But the vast majority of Indians are peaceful people. You cannot judge an entire country based upon the actions of a few wing-nuts.
TGF:  That, my friend, is an excellent topic for a later discussion. All I  said was that the 1961 invasion of Goa clouded the perception other countries had of India as a peaceful and peace-loving country.

XBS: You expected India to turn a blind eye to the violence which was going on in Goa?
TGF:  What violence are you referring to?
XBS: Violence like...like...the Inquisition! Hunh? What do you want to say about that?
TGF:  The Inquisition?.... which century are you talking about?
XBS: Does not matter which century I am talking about. Did the Inquisition take place in Goa under the Portuguese rule or not?
TGF:  It did.
XBS: Do you condone what happened in Goa?
TGF:  Not one bit. I condemn it utterly and absolutely.
XBS: So?
TGF:  So what?
XBS: So what? Are you asking me ...so what? Thousands of Goan Hindus were burnt by the Portuguese, because of their religion.
TGF:  Thousands of Goan Hindus? Are you sure about this?
XBS: Sure!
TGF:  Could you tell me How you are sure of this?
XBS: Not right now, but I am sure there are records.
TGF:  My friend, go look up the records. When you do, you will find out that the Inquisition in Goa was mainly directed against the Jews, Muslims and Christians. I have no doubt that many Hindus lost their lives. We should all condemn the Inquisition burnings without hesitation and without reservations. By the way, and this is not to dilute my condemnation of the Horrible Inquisition..... BUT..... do remember that the Inquisition took place 250 years ago. At that time, just in case you might forget, each year millions of women on the Indian subcontinent lost their lives (and PROPERTY) - they too were burnt alive in that Horrible thing called Sati!
XBS: Why do you get so defensive about the Inquisition? Why is it that every time someone talks about the Inquisition, you bring up Sati.
TGF: I will never ever defend the Inquisition. However, before we get very pious about our own goodness, let us not forget what we have done to our own people. I venture to state here that more Indian women were burnt to death courtesy Sati in one year than ALL the victims of the Inquisition throughout its infamous existence. ..... and don't let me start about that Apartheid thing called the Indian Caste System.

There was a loud cheering noise from the table of the 'solteiros'. Arriving all the way from Houston was Santosh in an animated discussion with Leo  of the multiple election attempts (all unsuccessful) fame. Leo was busy telling Santosh that all modern medicine doctors were quacks, and that he had the 100% cure for anything and everything.  And who was this? What else did you expect? Samir and Milton. Bambino  had heard that Santosh  was expected at Longuinhos on this afternoon, so he peeped in to check, located Santosh and headed straight for the table. He was armed with Books which had Evolved since they were Created ! (quite handy for the next chapter in their Evolution vs Creation debate) Oscar was quite surprised to see so many cyber-Goans in one spot. He took a good look and decided to join the "quiet" table.

Xacuti Bozo Singh(XBS) and TGF were temporarily distracted by the clamour accompanying the new arrivals. Teotonio walked in, looked around, hailed Fred, and sat on a table by himself. Prax  walked in, looked around and went out and Vivian & Ariosto entered, greeted Cecil,  said a couple of words to Fred before proceeding to the quiet table. So did Ethel. Lambert  was there too, but he sat alone in the corner sipping something with looked like Caju Feni ani Limboo Sodh.

XBS and TGF continued their discussion.

XBS: So TGF, tell me, are you for or against the Liberation of Goa?
TGF:  That is an useless question.
XBS: Why? because you cannot truthfully answer it?
TGF:  No!
XBS: or you do NOT want to answer it?
TGF: No, exactly as I said earlier. It is an useless question.
XBS: Stop going in circles and explain what you mean.

TGF:  OK....let me try.
XBS: Please be brief and to the point. You have the habit of making your answers long.
TGF:  You want me to explain my position or not?
XBS: Ok baba... talk as much as you want....but please make sense.

TGF:  This is my take on this 1961 Goa action
XBS: Liberation
TGF:  Call it whatever you want, Some call it Invasion of Goa, others call it Liberation of Goa, I'll just call it the 1961 Goa Action.
XBS: Let us agree to disagree on that.
TGF:  Fair enough.
XBS: Go on then.....tell me about this 1961 Goa action of yours?
TGF:  MINE?!
XBS: You know what I mean.

TGF: We have agreed that there was NO political entity called India before 1947... right?
XBS: Yes.
TGF:  Goa was captured in 1510 from the Turkish ruler of Goa, Adil Shah....right?
XBS: Eventually the indigenous population of Goa would have defeated Adil Shah.
TGF:  Let us stick to the facts and leave imagination to the fiction writers. The fact is that Arabs and other Muslim rulers controlled the economy of the vast portions of the subcontinent.
XBS: But they were eventually defeated.
TGF:  by whom?......the Portuguese!!!
XBS: but not without help from the Hindu Kings of South India.
TGF:  you mean the puppets of the Arabs and Turks? Do you know why the sea on the west coast of India is called the Arabian Sea?....Think about it ! Go check out who controlled the trade and who defeated the Arabs with the decisive battle of Diu. Did the Hindu  "rulers" of the Indian subcontinent support the Portuguese in that battle?

XBS: OK baba....let us fast forward to 1961.
TGF:  Fine!... When India got independence in 1947, whom did they get independence from?
XBS: What do you mean......the British of course!
TGF:  Good.
XBS: Of course...it is good. The British overstayed their welcome.
TGF:  So, the British were welcomed in India, is it?
XBS: No....they connived with some traitors and got their foothold in our country.
TGF:  I will not ask you whom the British defeated to establish themselves in India. I will let you check that out for yourself. But I will certainly say to you this bit. The Hindu residents of Goa who were being slaughtered by the Muslim rulers, invited the Portuguese to come to Goa. Otherwise, there would be NO Goa.....as we know it now. But for the Portuguese influence, Goa would be just another backwater place like Ratnagiri or Savantwadi...or even Karwar.

XBS: OK OK the desperate Hindu residents of Goa invited the Portuguese to help them get rid of the Muslim tyrants. Let us get back to 1961.
TGF: So, in 1947, the British gave Independence to British India...right?
XBS: Everyone knows that.
TGF: When that happened, British India was divided into India, Pakistan, Ceylon and Burma right?
XBS: and?
TGF: Was Goa part of British India?
XBS: what is your point?
TGF: How on earth does India have a right to Goa?
XBS: Hey, there is no way India can allow another country to be present within the landmass of India.
TGF: I am not going to ask you why, but instead, let me ask you this. Is Bangladesh not within the "landmass of India" ?
XBS: Goa is different.
TGF: How?

XBS: Goans wanted Liberation from the Portuguese.
TGF: How do you know that? Did anyone ask the Goans what they wanted?
XBS: Where have you been? Haven't you heard about the Goan Freedom struggle?
TGF: Tell me more about this.
XBS: What do you mean... are you saying that there were NO Freedom Fighters clamouring for Goa's freedom?
TGF: Are you telling me that Goans were consulted about the 1961 action? Are you telling me that the Goa Freedom Fighters represented majority Goan opinion?
XBS: Goans?....the Goans were so AFRAID of the dictator Salazar's police force that they just kept quiet. They needed a BIGGER MILITARY POWER like India to LIBERATE them. India had a moral responsibility to do that.

TGF: You do know that the vast majority of police in Goa were Goans?
XBS: Hunh?
TGF: and that they were incorporated into Goa Police after 1961?
XBS: But the Police Chiefs were from Indian Police.
TGF: Not Goans right?
XBS: How could that be. It was Indian rule now, NOT Goan rule!
TGF: Repeat that for me again?
XBS: I mean, the Goans would still have the Portuguese mentality. Goans were systematically BRAINWASHED by the Portuguese. They had become boot-lickers of the Portuguese.
TGF: So, they now had to "unbrainwashed"?
XBS: sure!
TGF: In other words, INDOCTRINATED by India?
XBS: Call it what you want, but it had to be done.

TGF: In other words, Goans did not really have the capacity to determine whether they wanted this "liberation"...right?
XBS: Not the way you are stating it. Goans were so many years under the domination of the Portuguese that they really were in no position to think for themselves. They did not know what was best for them.
TGF: So, they had to be told what was good for them....right. Is that they were never offered a referendum?

XBS: Referendum about what?
TGF: to determine whether Goans wanted Independence or to be part of India?
XBS: You mean to say that Indian soldiers would take the risk of ousting the Portuguese, and then the Goans could decide to be independent? That could not be fair.
TGF: So India would extract the price for organising the REGIME CHANGE in Goa?
XBS: What do you mean? Indians must sacrifice and Goans must enjoy?
TGF: I understand.

XBS: Look, if Goans were that upset about India's actions in 1961, they should have revolted. Why didn't they?
TGF: No, I think Goans did the right thing. Goans realised that there is NO benefit from war. Only death, destruction and despair comes from violence. Goans have accepted the events of 1961, wrong as they are, as events which cannot be changed. They have gone about their business of living their lives and bettering themselves. They continue to see how those with Power & Might destroy those who are unable to defend themselves. The events of East Timor, even though they eventually brought Independence to the East Timorese, remain a splendid example of how violent the bigger dogs can be. Most of the Goans have migrated to distant lands anyway. That is why such a large percentage of Goan houses are empty for so many years.

You can never convince me that that armed India overkill intervention resulted in Liberation of Goans. Liberation from Portuguese colonialism, sure! BUT not Liberation per se. As far as I am concerned, one colonial power departed and another came in its place. That has been Goa's history from thousands of years. Be that as it may be, the Goan spirit will continue to survive and thrive albeit in cyberspace. You can carry on your pious postulation about "1961" being some fancy term like liberation - liberation, my toe!

XBS: What do you mean by "liberation, my toe!"
TGF: OK....let us pretend for one minute that Goans were liberated in 1961.
XBS: Go ahead.
TGF: Who was the administrator of Goa on the day after this so called liberation?
XBS: Somebody called Candeth.
TGF: was he an Army guy, like a Lt. Gen.
XBS: Something like that.
TGF: Was he a Goan?
XBS: Why did the administrator have to be a Goan?
TGF: They were being liberated .... right?
XBS: So?
TGF: Shouldn't the Goans have had the opportunity to manage their own affairs?
XBS: But Goa was part of India now!
TGF: And ..... Goans were asked if they wanted to be part of India?
XBS: No!
TGF: In other words, after effecting the REGIME CHANGE, India then decided for the Goans?
XBS: But Goans had now become Indians.
TGF: Become....or MADE!
XBS: But they could have decided to refuse Indian citizenship.
TGF: And LEAVE Goa?
XBS: But of course!
TGF: Leave their own homes?
XBS: Yes.
TGF: Some ingenious LIBERATION, my friend. Is that why India BOMBED Goa's radio station, members of the Indian Army looted Goan shops and raped Goan women?
XBS: Whenever there is armed action, you have to expect such incidents. Besides, it is said that many of the Goan women were dressed and looked like the Portuguese.
TGF: How very interesting indeed!
XBS: Look, I know that some incidents of rape and looting happened. I also know that nobody will accept that they happened. But let me ask you, Is the Indian Army the only Army which is guilty of such acts? Why don't you just accept that these things happen with armed actions.
TGF: So, this Liberation also included Liberation from one's property and one's self respect?
 

Part 3 overleaf

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